great post mike. we need to mow down this astro turfing with real grassroots power!

Hey. Warning. I'm a radical.

We can interdict these efforts to astroturf the debate.

It will require resources, networking, and getting a little dirty. I'm not an expert on it on the methods - I'm just a hack - , but there are experts out there.

Essentially what is required is a form of industrial espionage. Having said that, it will be wise to bear in mind the Oil Industry has employed some of the best in this business, I would cite the deaths of Abiola and Abacha in Nigeria back in 1998 I believe it was, as evidence, but really, a pair of heart attacks are not evidence of much unless you have forensics.

I recently advocated a Manchurian Candidate style of attack on the board room of an as yet unidentified Insurance Company as a method of demonstrating that the public rage can be harnessed against the industry. As a form of Symbolic Communication death can be very powerful, and it seems to be all the right wing can really hear.

It should be noted that this approach is not likely to be effective with the oil industry because of their niche within our economic system, and their ability to work together to curtail supply.

This then, becomes a situation requiring a much greater degree of finesse. However, it should be noted that attacks on astroturfing that result in headlines will tend to impact the implimentation of this this method of guerrilla theater where ever it is implemented, and therefore an attack on the Insurance industry may prove useful in curbing it's use by the oil industry.

Anyone interested in picking my brain is more than welcome to get in touch. Just do me the favor of using plain English, eh?

And remember. Big Brother is out there. He may not always know who's side he's on, but in the end we are talking about the survival of the species.

ON that, there can be no negotiation. I'm sure he'll come along, eventually.

The kinds of activity I am suggesting might reflect poorly on the public image of GreenPeace, that possibility does exist.

A splinter group might be in order - or the appearance of one at least. It should be noted that various forms of organized opposition and interdiction of astroturfing need not necessarily rise to the level of criminality to receive negative publicity with adverse consequences, especially if it is widespread and organized.

Just a thought. In any case, I would suggest acting quickly, since the Oil Industry certainly will.

For example:

It isn't illegal to text a bus driver, even if the bus is carrying a bunch of astroturfers.

It isn't illegal to hit the brakes of your motor vehicle to avoid collision with a dog running around on the interstate, even if no one else saw it.

It isn't illegal for such events to coincide and thus create an accident. In fact, the coincidence of such a thing supports legislation to criminalize texting while driving, precisely because it is so distracting.

However, several such events in a short span of time, should they receive a great deal of publicity, could have adverse consequences on the public image of GreenPeace, should GreenPeace somehow become associated with the events.

It's all do-able. It's a question of WILL.

O yeah. If anyone has any questions, tell 'em ZenDog sent ya.

That's

http://www.zendogblog.net

and check out my short story St. James - it is full of techniques with real world applications.

Like I said. It's all do-able. I know. I know because it's all been done.

And remember:

WITHOUT JUSTICE
THERE CAN BE NO PEACE.

Regards to visitor Zen Dog, however, personal violence will bring neither justice nor peace. It spirals out of control and harms our cause.

“Nonviolence means avoiding not only external physical violence but also internal violence of spirit. You not only refuse to shoot a man, but you refuse to hate him.”

Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr. (1929-1968)

“Nonviolence is not a garment to be put on and off at will. Its seat is in the heart, and it must be an inseparable part of our being.”

Mahatma Gandhi (1869-1948)

Be strong, brothers and sisters, for this fight is for the strong and must be won "with a powerful and just weapon, which cuts without wounding... a sword that heals." There is no other way to turn one who believes themselves our enemy back into our family. It's much harder to do than what Zen-Dog has been preaching above, yet the rewards are more certain. Stand your ground for the future of life on Earth as if the last redwood of the forest!

"Non-violence is hard work. It is the willingness to sacrifice. It is the patience to win.”

Cesar Chavez (1929-1993)

I absolutely agree that non-violence is hard work.

Part of the difficulty that I see is that these tools and techniques I have described are already in wide use nationwide, harnessed to maintain the current status quo in our War on Drugs. No one is talking about these tools, how they are used, or the consequences.

So. If someone has a better method of getting the dialoge started let me know, I'm all EARS. In the meantime, I plan to continue to parade the possible application of behavioral tools and advertising in ways never intended by their designers.

To Zen dog, they are many of us in the environmental movement that share your frustration when it comes to the corporate strangle hold that big oil and big business has had on the environment and our over-all society in general. Even though these "tactics" that you imply may have some short term benefits they only address certain aspects and not the underlying problem, or "big picture" if you will, in other words they don't do much to actually solve the problem. If you really want to make a difference in the movement, (and I'm sure you do) then start with the obvious, SUSTAINABLE GROWTH, live it, breathe it, talk about it to anyone who will listen and even to those who would rather not hear it. Our only chance at survival as a species depends on it. I would also suggest to you that you refocus your efforts and start thinking of things I like to call "free based" technologies. Free based technologies are anything that frees a person from the grid and loosens big oil's stranglehold that it has on us and reduces the destruction that burning fossil has on the planet.
I absolutely agree with you that they can be no negotiations, if the environmental movement looses, then the planet looses, and if the planet looses then WE ALL LOOSE. But this should not be a war that is fought with guns or bombs, but rather with, science and technology. Man-kind does not lack the knowledge and technology to solve the problem, rather, we lack the will, or in some cases just simple common sense.

I wish I could agree with joerunnels assessment of the situation. Unfortunately we are dealing with people who will sell us War Without End.

Some of them are those referred to by the President just the other day, within the defense department, trapped in a Cold War mind set. Many of them are in private industry, and for all of them war is profit.

Our War on Drugs has raged since at least the early part of the Reagan admin. There is, it seems, no end in sight. This conflict has allowed the proliferation in the private sector of the very technology I've spoken of above.

Make no mistake, these tools kill. Often times it seems they are used to kill the best and the brightest among us.

There is also a paradigm shift underway. It is ill defined, but there are cracks.

I'm not saying you must use these tools. Not at all. And Big Brother most certainly is watching.

I'm simply articulating possibilities.

WITHOUT JUSTICE
THERE WILL BE NO PEACE

http://zendogblog.net